• http://twitter.com/AriNahmani Ari Nahmani

    If you want to hear Matt Cutts actually saying these things – listen here: http://www.kahenadigital.com/audio-matt-cutts-discusses-next-penguin-panda-updates-at-smx-west-2013/

  • http://twitter.com/TheeDesign TheeDesign.com

    Agreed with Kurtis below. Professionally speaking, its especially our job to stay up-to-date with the current ways to do things-like SEO-for example. Adapt and overcome!

  • http://www.facebook.com/hakeem.adebiyi.14 Hakeem Adebiyi

    If you use white hat link building strategies and you are focusing on quality and content then there really is nothing to worry about. If you are doing something other than that then hold on to your seats, it’s going to be a bumpy ride.

  • James

    No, just the bad ones.

  • http://www.facebook.com/brendoneill Brendon O’Neill

    Exactly. Thank you.

  • Wendy Piersall

    Yes. Mine. By Panda – CraftJr.com. I’d even dare Matt Cutts to find something wrong with it.

  • Angela Booth

    Ouch. And to think that I was getting bored. Here we go again… ;-)

  • http://www.facebook.com/dumpy.fi Dumpy Fi

    I see this in a friend’s vertical.. multi-forum networks selling PR to the highest bidder. Here’s probably the biggest one out there: https://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&safe=off&q=%22network+consists+of+the+largest+network+of+enthusiast-owned+enthusiast-operated+automotive+communities.+%22&oq=%22network+consists+of+the+largest+network+of+enthusiast-owned+enthusiast-operated+automotive+communities.+%22&gs_l=serp.3…29772.29772.0.30386.…1c.1.5.serp.j7Ao12Qm9NI

    And these guys are smart: no sitewides, dofollow links masked as ads. Why small businesses get penalized for guerilla ink building tactics when there are worse cases out there is really something I hope @mattcutts would address in one of his videos.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dumpy.fi Dumpy Fi

    Wendy, maybe it’s not your site but the sites linking to yours that got devalued by Penguin/Panda..

  • Wendy Piersall

    Possible, I suppose, but before December 21 I was 30% above my organic traffic over last year, and now I’m 20% below it. Seems like a pretty big penalty for doing nothing wrong. :(

  • http://www.facebook.com/njbabay Nievo Jan Babay

    I share the same sentiments.

  • http://www.facebook.com/dumpy.fi Dumpy Fi

    Same boat for some client sites of mine. Unfortunately for us, it will be extra hard to say whether it was us or the sites linking to us that got hit. I think this is why recovery stories/tactics are so hard to replicate.. we then go on a page diet, write wow content, fix bounce rates, disavow/takedown a bunch of links but still no recovery. I really think it has to do more with link donors getting devalued en masse (because of all the disavow data Google now has). I’ve seen samples of sites with the worst onpage elements outranking legit sites because their link sources are still being (incorrectly) valued by Google. I’m almost tempted to go pay these same PR selling sites just to compete :(

  • http://twitter.com/jkeys1313 Jason A. Keeler

    Unfortunately, I agree : (

  • http://shroomz81.wix.com/seomaniac/apps/blog/ SEO Maniac

    One of the best reason why SEO Practitioners and Experts should convert and to implement Social SEO White Hat Strategies on their campaigns.

  • Akash Beriha

    May be these sites are a bit smarter, or the released version of the Panda is not that updated to catch them.

    That’s the reason Google keep releases updates (higher versions) at intervals to thwart these low quality sites.

    Hope, you got your answer.

  • Akash Beriha

    I think you are not aware about millions of innocent WordPress bloggers who have been hit by Panda with every updates. They concentrate on content and wear white hats also.

    Their only mistake is – Their own WordPress software auto generate duplicate content problems by generating 1000s of duplicate URLs, which they are not aware of due to their lack of experience.

  • Pawel Reszka

    I just hope I am not thrown in the penalty pile again as collateral damage.

  • Akash Beriha

    Whether it’s Update / refresh or Apples /oranges – Finally it’s going to hit the websites and stomachs.

    Do some good things for white hatters and provide some energy to create quality stuff respectively.

  • Akash Beriha

    These are actually good news for SEOs ! More clients, more works and more money with every updates and penalty. A big thanks to Matt, to keep the SEO industry bustling.

  • Akash Beriha

    But the real problem is – his most of the balls are bouncers. No problem, we are happy with the extra ball and the run.

  • navjot singh

    That depends how good batsman you are – similar case is for SEOs

  • Faiz Alam

    Your right Mr. pankaj, I have lots of such kind of example where many stie are breaking Google Algorithm, and google has not taken any action against them….Google only cut who doesn’t pay/love to Google….it may be directly or Indirectly..

  • http://GrowMap.com Gail Gardner

    Interesting to read the amazingly naive worshipping at the feet of the great and powerful G who believe in their benevolence versus those who get it like misterzorro. Life is simple. There are two sets of rules: the ones for the favored few who can get away with anything and the ones for the rest of us. If you believe Google is always going to bless you, there is a bridge for sale with your name on it.

  • http://twitter.com/abdulisbest Abdul Wahab

    Finally news regarding Sape Links Network has been confirmed. and I’m waiting for this update. Hope so this time it will help…

  • http://twitter.com/profiledefender Profile Defenders


    From the sea to here I see you everywhere. None the less wanted to point out that there was a major update in late Jan. 2012 that really was the beginning of penguin.

  • dntaegis

    That’s the Google new strategy to attracting people towards Google Ad-words & killing to SEO.

  • Anthony Porto

    Building backlinks the right way has always been meant to be time consuming /time spaced, quite frankly it makes me sick that people sell 10,000 backlinks for $20 dollars, then others think they can spend a quick $20 and climb up the ranking, Google is saving the industry & doing their job by making people follow the rules and earn their ranking by having rank worthy content or good earned backlinks.. Do the work and you will get the result, so ya your quick $20 buck link farm that survived panda & pinguen is not going to cut it anymore..

  • http://www.cleaningangels.com.au/ Cleaning Angels

    Probably the new update is going to affect the good sites, But the spammy sites going to stay in top.. updates not seems to be accurate in targeting webspam.

  • http://twitter.com/mlivetech Mlivetech

    Good step towards removing spammers over the internet.

  • Gloyns

    here’s a pro tip: don’t buy links full stop.

    Earn links – it’s not hard, just use some imagination, create real content and build a real business – not links.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100004461093338 Anjali Sharma

    Lets see new impact

  • http://twitter.com/BlackHatMario BlackHatMario

    I used to earn 100 USD a day few years ago… but then google changed algos, I tried to fix it but google changed it again. Today I work in a warehouse because there is no more reason for me to waste my time in SEO and internet marketing. Thank you Google.

  • Anthony

    Sounds like I am the only one here not familiar with SAPE. Does anyone thing they’re (at least partly) responsible for the spam in payday loan SERPS for the past 6 months (some of which relied on Russian links)?

  • Anthony

    Just out of interest, what’s WhiteHatMario up to these days?

  • http://kercommunications.com/ Nick Ker

    There are also millions of WordPress sites unaffected. A default wordpress installation does need improvement for most sites, but doesn’t automatically create duplicate content until someone configures it with categories, tags, and other archives which often do create pages that appear to be duplicates.
    It is really about taking responsibility for your own site and business. If you don’t know other business rules – like tax laws or proper accounting practices. If you don’t know the rules, you hire a professional who does. If your tax preparer screws up, you are still responsible. Or in the case of something like WordPress or another CMS causing problems, it is more like a restaurant owner who doesn’t want to pay a plumber to install the natural gas lines to the oven or stove. He does it himself and has nobody else to blame when it goes wrong and the restaurant blows up.

  • http://kercommunications.com/ Nick Ker
  • Will Stevens

    Hi Wendy. I just had a look at your site via Majestic SEO. The first thing I would suggest is removing the site-wide links you have going to and from your other sites in the header as they are creating roughly 2,000 links a piece and that won’t be doing your backlink profile any good.

    I also noticed a lot of links from low-quality directories. I’d work on getting those removed or disavowed as my next step.

    Hope that helps!

  • http://kercommunications.com/ Nick Ker

    Like Dumpy Fi said, many times a drop is actually because a lot of sites that link to yours have been devalued.

    That said, I can also see some reasons why craftjr would get flagged by Panda.

    The home page has very little unique content and is comprised mostly of links to other pages. The only piece of static content on the page is the “About CraftJr” box, which also appears throughout the site, as well as on several other sites (cartoonjr, classroomjr, etc). Many of your category pages have the same problem – no content but the About box and all links. So you end up with a lot of pages that look substantially similar and confusing to the bots, and probably to some users too. Put something unique on each page that is important – like maybe a welcome message at least few sentences long on the home page or a brief description on the other sections. If the category pages (age groups, etc) are not something that needs to show up in google, use the noindex tag to reduce the number of seemingly duplicate pages.

    Try to clean up the home page so it has fewer links – lose the tag cloud and decide what links REALLY need to be on the home page (maybe cut the Recently Added down to just a few).

    The top navigation bar that goes to the other woojr sites is also confusing – About & Contact take users to woojr rather than an about or contact page on craftjr.

    Is the whole woojr network down in traffic or just craft? I didn’t dig too deeply into how well linked your site is, but it looks like most of the links to craftjr come from other woojr sites. While this isn’t necessarily a problem in itself, none of the algo updates are stand-alone. Meaning, sites that are very popular (having a lot of natural links and social signals) will be less likely to get hurt by a quality oriented algorithm change.

  • yogesh

    I am also agree

  • Wendy Piersall

    While I appreciate and will implement some of these suggestions, I disagree that these would cause the site to get flagged by Panda – for the simple reason that nearly every other site in my niche (that ranks) has similar, if not worse issues. See Disney’s Spoonful site.

  • http://twitter.com/chapinleather Chapin Leather

    I really don’t mind having to live by rules but being whipped lashed back and forth by market forces, on top of Google makes it very difficult for the individual small business owner to actually market goods. It would be really helpful IF SEL or someone else whose business it is to decipher all the “rules” put out by Google et al provided a review service. Which goes through a site in context of new updates and does like a 20 point inspection. A bit like taking in the car for a tune up in the Spring, Summer, Fall Winter. Instead of being subjected to the after math of missed opportunity the individual running a business could actually make progress. The tech world has no idea how much time is consumed in doing all these updates and tweaks just to stay afloat much less make progress. Any who says otherwise is actually making something to market online there selling services instead of products.

  • Matthew Norton

    hahahaha the Content Is King mentality destroyed Google search. Sometimes people just want to find a website directly related to their subject. It was not until recently I had to add “-forum” “-blog” to my search just so I don’t get pointless opinions about a specific subject they have no clue about.

    In turn I started using bing to this little wonder:

    “In response to a complaint we received under the US Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we have removed 1 result(s) from this page. If you wish, you may read the DMCA complaint that caused the removal(s) atChillingEffects.org.”

    Remember when Google cared about the user experience instead of pandering to their shareholders.

    Yes Google Panda was yet another PR ploy to say “we are doing something” sorry small businesses looks like you will need to purchase Google Adwords in order to stay on top.

    Thank you SEO experts for drinking the kulaid and being Google best Free advertising.

  • Matthew Norton

    Copy paste other people’s content and make sure your links are better than theirs. And you will win every time (if you can’t see the dark side of SEO you won’t win it :p)

  • thesanyamjain

    Very true…Unfrtunately I gets fit into your definition of small business :(

  • http://kercommunications.com/ Nick Ker

    It is like speeding on the highway – lots of people do it, few get caught. It may not seem fair, but it is what it is.

    Also, Panda is only a small part of how Google ranks sites. There are several hundred other factors. So while you may have similar quality issues, there are lots of other things going on that are not always independent of each other.

    Spoonful is a great example of what I was talking about at the end of my last message about Panda and quality issues not being as severe if the site has other things going for it.
    You can’t assume from a quick visual inspection that all those sites have the same or worse problems than yours unless you really spend a lot of time anlalyzing them all. But just for the sake of explanation, let’s say Spoonful has the exact same quality issues as your site, and both sites have the same amount and quality of content. Spoonful has over 6000 different sites that link to it. CraftJr has about 200. I don’t doubt that your readers enjoy your content and it is popular, but it is not as popular or as established as Spoonful. This level of popularity can help make up for some of the quality issues.

    For more on how it all interrelates: http://www.google.com/insidesearch/howsearchworks/thestory/

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1375741069 Jesse Kamikaze

    It can be hard depending on what industry you work in.

    Sure, in the tech industry, its super easy- try being a flower shop or a dentist. Hope you like guest blogging with people who change your content, remove your links, and refuse to put you as an author. Heck that infographic you made for them? It goes on pinterest with no link back. Cross promotion? More like you promote them and they can;t get their boss to approve anything for 2 weeks.

  • http://kercommunications.com/ Nick Ker

    There are quite a few reputable companies and consultants who offer a range of SEO Audit services that are exactly what you describe. But they aren’t usually as simple as a 20 point inspection. And despite what a lot of people here claim, Google’s rules really have not changed much, so doing a complete audit quarterly would be overkill unless your site changes drastically that often.

    The problem with Audits is that smaller businesses are often unable or unwilling to pay for the amount of time, knowledge and work that goes into a thorough site analysis. The free SEO analysis tools that are so common these days will give you a checklist of the very basic stuff, but won’t do much in the way of analyzing your incoming links, or complex issues like potential duplicate content from the site’s architecture.

    The “tech world” knows how much time it takes to stay afloat or make progress, but many site owners do not and can not understand why good SEO or even good web development is not dirt cheap.

  • Wendy Piersall

    Actually Webmaster Tools has over 105,000 links from the max 1000 domains linking to my site. The site draws natural links weekly.

    And I’m not getting ‘caught’ at anything, because to answer your initial question, you were looking for a 100% white-hat site that had been directly affected by Panda – and you’re looking at it.

    Also, I’m enjoying the discussion – thanks. :)

  • Akash Beriha

    Hi Nick,

    Here, I’m talking about housewives, not restaurant owners. I mean part time, non-earning loggers.

    Every Tom, Dick and Harry who knows a lil bit about SEO also knows how to getrid of duplicate content in WP blog.

  • http://kercommunications.com/ Nick Ker

    I don’t want to get into a silly semantics argument. The speeding analogy was meant to help you understand why your site was affected but others may not have been (we don’t know without looking at their traffic). You were “caught” at not meeting google’s definition of quality as well as other sites, thus the site doesn’t rank as high as it did before. What color your hat is doesn’t matter. Keep in mind these algo updates are not really penalties, but filters that address some specific issues. You aren’t being punished per say, just not ranked as high as you’d like because of those issues.
    Whether it is 200 domains or 1000 that link to yours, it still comes down to this:
    1. Your site has quality issues that others do not.

    2. Other sites are better linked and maybe better liked than yours.

    Both of those things lead to the other sites outranking yours.

    Work toward reversing those two points and you’ll be much happier.