Comments on: The Promise & Reality Of Mixing The Social Graph With Search Engines http://searchengineland.com/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032 Search Engine Land: Must Read News About Search Marketing & Search Engines Thu, 18 Mar 2010 08:06:18 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Neal Richter http://searchengineland.com/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032/comment-page-1#comment-3715 Neal Richter Fri, 07 Sep 2007 19:11:51 +0000 http://searchengineland.com/beta/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032.php#comment-3715 I just posted on this topic here: <a href="http://aicoder.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://aicoder.blogspot.com/</a> Prediction: Mahalo and ChaCha will suffer from the same fate as Expert Systems. I just posted on this topic here: http://aicoder.blogspot.com/

Prediction: Mahalo and ChaCha will suffer from the same fate as Expert Systems.

]]> By: searchingDOT http://searchengineland.com/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032/comment-page-1#comment-3714 searchingDOT Tue, 04 Sep 2007 22:14:23 +0000 http://searchengineland.com/beta/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032.php#comment-3714 Danny - I agree with you. We don't have to run out and find real jobs just yet :) What a post - and the language! I am just joking - its great to make this a conversation vs. just "Clash of the Titans" I added my 2 cents on my blog: <a href="http://www.searchingdot.com/2007/09/04/who-will-kill-google/" rel="nofollow">http://www.searchingdot.com/2007/09/04/who-will-kill-google/</a> Danny – I agree with you. We don’t have to run out and find real jobs just yet :)

What a post – and the language!
I am just joking – its great to make this a conversation vs. just “Clash of the Titans”

I added my 2 cents on my blog:
http://www.searchingdot.com/2007/09/04/who-will-kill-google/

]]> By: AndrewGoodman http://searchengineland.com/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032/comment-page-1#comment-3713 AndrewGoodman Mon, 03 Sep 2007 19:35:10 +0000 http://searchengineland.com/beta/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032.php#comment-3713 Danny, I'm worried about my next SEL column. The profanity bar has been raised! :) But seriously, thanks for covering alll of the many relevant points here, especially the key bit about "FBO" :) Danny, I’m worried about my next SEL column. The profanity bar has been raised! :)

But seriously, thanks for covering alll of the many relevant points here, especially the key bit about “FBO” :)

]]> By: Rocky Agrawal http://searchengineland.com/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032/comment-page-1#comment-3712 Rocky Agrawal Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:49:10 +0000 http://searchengineland.com/beta/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032.php#comment-3712 Danny, Great analysis on both topics. As a former online newspaper guy, I see some big issues here. In the news business, the archives are called "the morgue". Now that the Times is bringing stories back to life by surfacing them for crawling, I think there's a greater responsibility to ensure that corrections are prominent and viewable. In the current set up, it's quite likely that you would see a (free) headline that says "Justin Smith accused of molesting a child". But you'd have to pay $4.99 to see the correction that says, oops, "The Times incorrectly reported the name. John Smith is accused of molesting a child. The Times regrets the error." I went back and looked at two egregious cases of Times errors - Jayson Blair and Judith Miller. Even on stories where the Times KNOWS it seriously screwed up, the corrections are either not applied or are buried. More detail on what I found: <a href="http://blog.agrawals.org/2007/08/30/jayson-blair-judith-miller-and-the-new-york-times-archive/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.agrawals.org/2007/08/30/jayson-blair-judith-miller-and-the-new-york-times-archive/</a> Danny,

Great analysis on both topics.

As a former online newspaper guy, I see some big issues here. In the news business, the archives are called “the morgue”. Now that the Times is bringing stories back to life by surfacing them for crawling, I think there’s a greater responsibility to ensure that corrections are prominent and viewable.

In the current set up, it’s quite likely that you would see a (free) headline that says “Justin Smith accused of molesting a child”. But you’d have to pay $4.99 to see the correction that says, oops, “The Times incorrectly reported the name. John Smith is accused of molesting a child. The Times regrets the error.”

I went back and looked at two egregious cases of Times errors – Jayson Blair and Judith Miller. Even on stories where the Times KNOWS it seriously screwed up, the corrections are either not applied or are buried.

More detail on what I found:
http://blog.agrawals.org/2007/08/30/jayson-blair-judith-miller-and-the-new-york-times-archive/

]]> By: Kalena http://searchengineland.com/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032/comment-page-1#comment-3711 Kalena Thu, 30 Aug 2007 14:15:18 +0000 http://searchengineland.com/beta/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032.php#comment-3711 Don't mind me. I just dropped by to see if the rumors were true you had used the F word. They are and I'm strangely proud. Don’t mind me. I just dropped by to see if the rumors were true you had used the F word. They are and I’m strangely proud.

]]> By: Eric Lander http://searchengineland.com/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032/comment-page-1#comment-3710 Eric Lander Thu, 30 Aug 2007 12:57:59 +0000 http://searchengineland.com/beta/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032.php#comment-3710 Danny, this is an incredible post and one that I will certainly reference in the immediate future. With that said, I'd like to officially join your army if there's a war on the horizon. I've had it out with Calacanis in the past on my blog -- to which he (tried) to counter. The end result though was nothing more than his continual plug for Mahalo, exposing more holes in his clearly skewed logic. Great post, great information -- and I'm happy you represent the industry as you do. Danny, this is an incredible post and one that I will certainly reference in the immediate future.

With that said, I’d like to officially join your army if there’s a war on the horizon. I’ve had it out with Calacanis in the past on my blog — to which he (tried) to counter. The end result though was nothing more than his continual plug for Mahalo, exposing more holes in his clearly skewed logic.

Great post, great information — and I’m happy you represent the industry as you do.

]]> By: Danny Sullivan http://searchengineland.com/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032/comment-page-1#comment-3709 Danny Sullivan Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:58:33 +0000 http://searchengineland.com/beta/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032.php#comment-3709 Seth, I totally agree, they have a culture issue as well. And they need to deal with that, if they're going to be doing online journalism in the 2000s :) Seth, I totally agree, they have a culture issue as well. And they need to deal with that, if they’re going to be doing online journalism in the 2000s :)

]]> By: PaulReilly http://searchengineland.com/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032/comment-page-1#comment-3708 PaulReilly Wed, 29 Aug 2007 11:28:50 +0000 http://searchengineland.com/beta/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032.php#comment-3708 Great post.. I do like an explosive rant :) Personally I didn't see Mahalo as any kind of search engine. On the surface it doesn't seem scalable, but then.. neither did wikipedia back in the day... ...and who would have thought that facebook would have grown into what it is today. One thing I can be sure of... is that things change! Every now and then a paradigm shift occurs. Paul Reilly <a href="http://blog.facebump.com" rel="nofollow">http://blog.facebump.com</a> Great post.. I do like an explosive rant :)

Personally I didn’t see Mahalo as any kind of search engine.

On the surface it doesn’t seem scalable, but then.. neither did wikipedia back in the day…

…and who would have thought that facebook would have grown into what it is today.

One thing I can be sure of… is that things change!

Every now and then a paradigm shift occurs.

Paul Reilly
http://blog.facebump.com

]]> By: Seth Finkelstein http://searchengineland.com/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032/comment-page-1#comment-3707 Seth Finkelstein Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:47:06 +0000 http://searchengineland.com/beta/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032.php#comment-3707 Danny, my standards for journalism have gotten remarkably low. These days, if nobody gets hurt, I ignore the rest. You are absolutely right, the guy did not understand the intricacies of a complicated topic. But, for me, there's little point in complaining about it, at best I'd be ignored and dismissed, at worst it'd be taken as evidence of unreasonableness. You are arguably in a different position. And I understand "SEO", like "hacker" (and for me, "censorware") is a linguistic battleground. However, I still tend to believe that inveighing against their garbled explanation of the problem is distracting from the problem itself. The NYT can indeed totally handle the issue <em>technically</em>, but don't underestimate the difficulties <em>culturally</em>. That's what the article really is about. That's what missed if it's regarded as "That ignoramus said "SEO" instead of "high trust ranking", and why can't they just update the pages?" - the article is in fact about, <em>culturally</em>, why just updating the pages isn't a no-brainer. Don't assume these people are just plain stupid. Grant them a presumption of knowing their own domain of expertise, maintaining a "paper of record". On the specifics, check out Jon Garfunkel's post: <a href="http://civilities.net/Search_Engine_Obfuscation" rel="nofollow">http://civilities.net/Search_Engine_Obfuscation</a> Danny, my standards for journalism have gotten remarkably low. These days, if nobody gets hurt, I ignore the rest. You are absolutely right, the guy did not understand the intricacies of a complicated topic. But, for me, there’s little point in complaining about it, at best I’d be ignored and dismissed, at worst it’d be taken as evidence of unreasonableness. You are arguably in a different position. And I understand “SEO”, like “hacker” (and for me, “censorware”) is a linguistic battleground. However, I still tend to believe that inveighing against their garbled explanation of the problem is distracting from the problem itself.

The NYT can indeed totally handle the issue technically, but don’t underestimate the difficulties culturally. That’s what the article really is about. That’s what missed if it’s regarded as “That ignoramus said “SEO” instead of “high trust ranking”, and why can’t they just update the pages?” – the article is in fact about, culturally, why just updating the pages isn’t a no-brainer.

Don’t assume these people are just plain stupid. Grant them a presumption of knowing their own domain of expertise, maintaining a “paper of record”.

On the specifics, check out Jon Garfunkel’s post:

http://civilities.net/Search_Engine_Obfuscation

]]> By: Danny Sullivan http://searchengineland.com/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032/comment-page-1#comment-3706 Danny Sullivan Wed, 29 Aug 2007 03:43:26 +0000 http://searchengineland.com/beta/the-promise-reality-of-mixing-the-social-graph-with-search-engines-12032.php#comment-3706 @seth: That New York Times piece deserved better attention, but I was pretty tired after Scoble. But if I had time, I would have ripped it to shreds even more. I came away with the distinct impression the ombudsman really didn't understand SEO that well -- what he "meant" to say to me is exactly what he wrote. He's a journalist, and an ombudsman especially knows he's going to be closely watched. In addition, when I did the search, I got to an archive page that listed both the original article and the follow-up -- a good result. Did he see the same? Overall, the concerns people have about content showing up that might harm their reputation is real. But that's not a new issue -- and it's an issue that I think the NYT can totally handle. @Scott & Dave: social has huge promise. I thought so when I originally wrote about it as part of my pieces on Eurekster and My Yahoo, and it's still out there. I'm mainly saying that will be part of the puzzle going forward rather than the revolution alone, which Robert seemed to suggest. @seth: That New York Times piece deserved better attention, but I was pretty tired after Scoble. But if I had time, I would have ripped it to shreds even more. I came away with the distinct impression the ombudsman really didn’t understand SEO that well — what he “meant” to say to me is exactly what he wrote. He’s a journalist, and an ombudsman especially knows he’s going to be closely watched. In addition, when I did the search, I got to an archive page that listed both the original article and the follow-up — a good result. Did he see the same? Overall, the concerns people have about content showing up that might harm their reputation is real. But that’s not a new issue — and it’s an issue that I think the NYT can totally handle.

@Scott & Dave: social has huge promise. I thought so when I originally wrote about it as part of my pieces on Eurekster and My Yahoo, and it’s still out there. I’m mainly saying that will be part of the puzzle going forward rather than the revolution alone, which Robert seemed to suggest.

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