• http://www.facebook.com/maheshone Mahesh Mohan

    They missed a point: It should be… “As a result, we chose to continue to redirect IE mobile users to Google.com where they could at least make local searches AND click on ads so that we make money.”

  • http://www.appatic.com Avatar X

    rI would like another problematic narrative of Google messing with Windows Phone Users:

    G+

    At first you loaded it up and were redirected to the “featued” mobile version. But if you had in your settings that you prefered desktop web versions you would get served that.

    Later it would still redirect you even if your settings were that you preferred , but now to the basic mobile site. But there was a link that allowed you to load up the desktop version on demand.
    Later that link went away.
    Later if you had saved the link to load the “featured” mobile version. It would just not work and force you use the basic mobile site because the good mobile site has always been crappy.
    Yet, if you change the UAS. You can get the desktop version just fine too. And it works better than it works in both the stock android browser, chrome for android, opera mobile android and firefox for android.
    Another interesting thing is how the most exotic version of IE9 can load up Google sites fine. The one in the Xbox 360.

  • Avatar Roku

    The WebKit excuse from Google also made no sense because Firefox on Android can access Google Maps. The attacks on IE and Windows Phone don’t end at Maps though. Try to visit the Gmail website on a Windows Phone and the site loads up some archaic mobile WAP site that looks like it was designed in the 1990′s for a flip phone. Google actively ignores the IE setting to provide the Desktop version of pages and then it provides a mobile version of the site that no other smartphone gets.

    So here’s a little review of what Google is doing to harm consumers on Windows Phones:

    1.) Maps: Ignore browser request for desktop version of site AND block or redirect pages AND provide no app alternative. The combination of all 3 denied users complete access to the service.

    2.) YouTube: Provide no app AND deny other developers access to API’s necessary to create a functioning app AND constantly change backend to break compatibility with unapproved apps. Various Windows Phone developers have had their apps broken repeatedly by Google’s changes. (MetroTube by LazyWorm, SuperTube or Tube Pro by Fast Code, etc.). Microsoft has built a YouTube app but can’t publish it because Google refuses to allow them access to the APIs.

    3.) Gmail: Ignore browser request for desktop version of site AND use an inferior outdated mobile site that no other smartphone browser gets AND break the ability to sync calendar contacts and push email for new users.

    4.) Search: Ignore browser request for desktop version of site AND use an inferior outdated WAP site that no other smartphone browser gets

  • Avatar Roku

    Google is going out of it’s way to make sure that the version of their websites on Windows Phone have limited functionality and look like garbage. Let’s be clear on this, IE10 on phone and Windows 8 is nearly the same. So whatever work Google did to test their sites for Windows 8 means that there is no good reason for them at the very least to be ignoring the Desktop version preference setting in IE10.

    And there is no functionality in the mobile site version of Gmail or Google search that IE10 mobile can’t handle. We are not talking about advanced functionality here. My first gen Palm Pre from years ago can handle Google’s mobile sites. They are not only ignoring the desktop version request in IE but denying the normal smartphone mobile site and providing the flip phone browser WAP site for Windows Phone users. This is outrageous and I’m not sure how Google has managed to get away with this up until now. Thankfully they finally stepped way over the line and got the spotlight on them.

    And I should point out as someone who has used Windows Phone regularly for the past couple of years that I have never come across any other sites besides Google’s that do these things. Google is the only company that is trying to hurt Windows Phone experience like this. The web browser in WP8 is of exceptional quality and highly standards compliant. Google’s behavior is inexcusable on technical merit.

  • http://www.appatic.com Avatar X

    Am aware and i wrote about it at length: https://plus.google.com/101835433272879715504/posts
    Well, now that you have replied to one of my comments. At least people will know we are not the same guy. Hopefully.

  • http://twitter.com/rwaldron rick waldron

    “The bottom line is that Google’s users are on Windows Phones” all 3 of you? You’re obviously not a software engineer, are you? There is virtually no benefit for Google to invest in developing apps for Windows Phone, in the same way there was no benefit for developing webOS apps.

  • http://searchengineland.com/ Danny Sullivan

    There’s an obvious interest. It’s because Google has users there, otherwise, this wouldn’t have been a story that gained attention at all. If Google doesn’t provide apps to its users, then it risks losing those users to other services, upsetting those users or putting its users to risk. It also suggests that Google will use its dominance in one area to protect itself in another. Neither of those are particularly “googley” behavior.

  • http://post404.com/ Randall “texrat” Arnold

    Don’t be evil!

  • Vardhman Jain

    For last 10 years I have not been able to see Microsoft word/excel etc. documents in full fidelity on Linux desktop as are many other users, it was never considered bad for Microsoft to not provide support for Linux right ?
    There were one off efforts like WINE and MONO but they never worked because they were all developed without Microsoft support. We couldn’t even access files shared on Windows’ network sharing protocol except for using SAMBA software suite which regularly broke as Microsoft changed something in the protocol and never cared to provide support to Linux users.
    Now people always complained Linux desktop usage is too low for anyone to care, well tables have turned and Windows mobile seems to be in that state now. So it things don’t work on Windows Mobile it shouldn’t be a big problem right ?

  • http://searchengineland.com/ Danny Sullivan

    It should be a problem. It is a problem. Google perhaps messing with Microsoft isn’t an excuse for Microsoft to mess with others. The bottom line in all of this remains the users.

  • Techpm

    I don’t remember Microsoft in those days standing for a “open and inclusive” Office, the standard Google so strongly – and rightfully – campaigns for the web.

    The way Google did this is especially bad, they should at least inform the user why they are being redirected from the maps site they requested to Google’s plain search. As it was done it just looks like broken behaviour from the users’ perspective.

    Yes, this reminds me of Microsoft’s old and likely illegal – MS settled that case for $280 million – efforts of killing DR-DOS by throwing bogus errors (the “AARD code”), but that doesn’t make it OK for Google to do the same on the web.

  • Vardhman Jain

    Techpm although I suffered for years as a Linux user, I have lately realized that developing a software on all platforms isn’t possible and justified for each company. Sometimes you choose a platform even though it doesn’t support everything like my choice of Linux, Android etc.

    For e.g almost everyone makes iPad optimized apps and ignores Android tablets, you can’t argue with them, if they saw it profitable they would but its just doesn’t justify the investment for some of them yet.

    I agree overall everything should be fully standardized and run everywhere, its just funny to see Microsoft complaining about these after years or running away from standardization and actually creating hurdles for others who wanted to interoperate.

    Consider the other aspect of this problem, how many languages should a software support ? Most companies stop after a few, of course people using computers in other language suffer, does that make these companies evil ?

    I am not sure whats right thing to do, informing people that their experience is going to suck as their hardware/platform/browser isn’t supported and giving best effort or simply saying we don’t want to suck and therefore we will not do it until we have a good enough product for you.

    For a long time when Google didn’t release Google Maps for iphone people complained about it doing it deliberately etc. when it released some people still argued that it was required to do so for its own sake. So basically people can keep arguing whatever Google does or doesn’t judging it as evil or greedy either way, Google’s main interest always lies it making its product available to everyone and everywhere and monetizing them and not playing some platform wars.

  • Pete Austin

    @dannysullivan:disqus If all that matters is the users, why are you messing with others by not publishing your stories in any Asian language? This affects a much greater proportion of Internet users than Microsoft Phone. Presumably, as with Google in this case, you do not have the resources to address all needs of all users and so do the best you can. BTW congratulations for the excellent work in your postscript.

  • roselan

    what would be real fun is if google offers a maps app to the new rim os from Day 1. Oh, man I will need even more popcorn!

  • Pete Austin

    I’d guestimate that less that 0.1% of Google users are on Windows Phone, because it’s only been on sale for a short time with a less than 2% market share. And the Windows Phone users – as you identify in your excellent postscript – were not complaining. Google’s maps team had to choose between work to benefit them, or different work to benefit the other 99.9% of Google users on other platforms, and they chose the latter.

  • Techpm

    Again this isn’t about developing native software, it’s the Google maps *website*.

    Especially as advocates of an “open web” Google should at the very least provide a maps website that’s coded to web standards and thus work on any standards compliant webbrowser. Let the browser makers them worry if their browser isn’t standards compliant enough.

    But that wasn’t even the problem here. There wasn’t any major technical issue, the maps website still worked fine on Windows Phones as people using the .co.uk version saw and there’s also a video around showing the US version working just fine once the UserAgent strong was changed.

    Also Google neither informed “the experience was going to suck” or “we don’t want to suck so no maps for you”. They just redirect users going to maps.google.com to their search site instead without explanation.

  • http://searchengineland.com/ Danny Sullivan

    We don’t publish our stories in Asian languages because as you point out, we don’t have the resources to do that. But Google being a multibillion dollar company certainly does have the resources to at least verify if its maps are accessible on Windows Phone, I’d say. I think they could do an app pretty easily, too.

  • http://searchengineland.com/ Danny Sullivan

    I agree — Windows Phone users don’t appear to have been complaining. They’ve got Bing Maps, which are good maps and probably didn’t suffer anything like the shock some Apple users had when Apple entered the map space afresh.

    But Google cares very, very deeply about Windows in general, to the degree that it went out of its way to ensure there was a Google Search App out when Windows 8 launched and pushed “how to get your Google back.”

    Windows Phone has a much smaller market share than Windows, of course — and it might be that Microsoft will never grow it much. But I think Microsoft has a reasonable shot at doing so, and even if Google remains ignoring it.

    If that happens, Google’s going to belatedly wonder what it needs to do to get on the platform, rather than be on it from the beginning.

    It’s a relatively small investment for Google to support Windows Phone in the same way it supports Android and iOS. I don’t think the lack of resources is the problem. I think it’s just a lack of desire to really do anything to help Microsoft. And I get that, given that Google’s been attacked by Microsoft in many ways.

    But Google has always tried to set itself up as the anti-Microsoft. To ignore the Microsoft mobile platform for what feels like competitive reasons, not resource issues, well, that’s Google being like what it always said it didn’t want to be like.

    Imagine also how Google would have reacted if, when Android launched, Microsoft put in blocks to prevent people from accessing Microsoft services. Google would have painted that as Microsoft trying to protect its market share by acting anti-competitively.

  • Peter F. Mayer

    Hi Danny, your findings are somewhat incomplete. I managed to get maps.google.at displayed on an ATIV S by tapping on Google search results – see the screenshots in this article: http://www.telekom-presse.at/Eigenartige_Aufregung_um_die_Verfuegbarkeit_der_Desktop_Version_von_Google_Maps_auf_Windows_Phone.id.23840.htm

  • NooNagNee

    That looks like its gonna be good ddue. Wow.

    Privacy-Mix.tk

  • http://twitter.com/Twitteninja Zargh

    The Mobile maps site certainly doesn’t work on 7.X going by this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfTS1f8vqAo

    The crux of the issue seems to be that they didn’t test on Windows Phone 8.

  • Gary Wilkinson

    I don’t blame Google for not bringing native apps to Windows Phone, there is no market share incentive and they don’t want to help Microsoft gain on them. However, I’m not a fan of these Webkit tailored mobile websites they are popping out these days, I think it borders on going against the open web they so often talk about.

  • NooNagNee

    sounds like a solid plan to me dude.

    http://www.Privacy-Mix.tk

  • http://searchengineland.com/ Danny Sullivan

    Yes, I mentioned google.co.uk doesn’t do the redirect, and I’m sure that’s true for many other non-Google.com addresses. It underscores the inattentiveness by Google in terms of reviewing when and where and why it was doing this.

  • http://twitter.com/Vim_Ed Ed Vim

    So Seach Engine Land doesn’t have the resources to offer Asian language support and Google has the resources to develop for Windows Phone, but going back to Mr. Jain’s comment, you’re implying MS never had the financial resources to support a version of MS Office for Linux? It’s my opinion MS will never support things like MS Office, or Silverlight, or anything for Linux because it’s serving it’s business model not to, most definitely NOT because of financial reasons.

  • http://twitter.com/bobjones Bob Jones

    maps.google.co.uk does do a redirect to the mobile site. They changed that a few days ago too.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Frank-Drews/1814359375 Frank Drews

    Allot offen people are accusing Google for not providing Apps for an OS wich has a very tiny market share (windows phone). To put things into perspective: What about MS providing MS Office and MS exchange apps for Android, the most important mobile OS out there?
    If we want to do some antitrust stuff, we have to start with MS (again). But MS seems to bedoing a good job to create a different impression in the media.

  • http://www.socialbakers.com/ Peter Kelly

    I think that this is really unfair from Google. Considering their position, practically owning half of the internet (exaggerating), they should really behave more business friendly and not try to disadvantage their competition with these unfair tactics.

  • Pierre Gardin

    1) Bing Maps is the hardcoded default. It took Google six months and millions of $ to code the iOS version, why should they spend so muuch time and money for an OS that has a few % market share?

    2) “Microsoft has built a YouTube app but can’t publish it” Of course they can’t, do you think MS would allow Google to publish an app called “Bing Maps” or “Xbox” on the Windows Marketplace? WP users can still access YT using IE.

    3) EAS support costs a lot of money. Again, why should Google spend this money to support WP users? It does not make any sense from a business POV.

  • Pierre Gardin

    It took them six months to develop an iPhone app. Not that “easy”.

  • http://www.clubnokiard.com/ Frankie Bloise

    Stupid reply, Blackberry (RIM) makes Google Talk (and is not Google), Facebook and MSN Messenger.

  • Joe_HTH

    I’m sorry, but this is stupid. Microsoft is not asking Google to develop a WP8 app. They’re asking for access to the same APIs and metadata that Google gives other competitors access to. Again, Microsoft didn’t ask Google to develop for WP8. It costs next to nothing in resources or time to give Microsoft access to APIs and metadata.

    2. WP users can access YT using IE? You’re obviously an idiot who has never used WP. This is a poor solution, and many videos still need flash.

    3. If EAS costs a lot of money, why is Google continuing to pay that license to Microsoft. They will continue to pay Microsoft after they cut off EAS. Why? Because Google will continue providing EAS to existing customers, including enterprise. So they will still have to pay Microsoft for a license.

    4. Irrelevant. Nobody complained about Google Search. Search is the last thing Google would try to block.

    Stop making excuses for Google’s illegal and anti-competitive behavior. If Microsoft did this, you would be whining like a bitch.

  • Joe_HTH

    What the hell does that have to do with anything? Not putting an expensive piece of software on a shitty OS with even less market share than WP8, is a far cry from Google intentionally blocking consumers from a free and open website, and denying access to APIs and metadata that they provide to other companies.

    Now if Microsoft were complaining about Google not developing for WP8, then you might have a point. That’s not what Microsoft is doing though.

  • Joe_HTH

    This has nothing to do with what you’re talking about. Microsoft is not complaining about standardization and interoperability. They’re complaining about Google illegally blocking free and open websites, and blocking access to APIs and metadata so they can create an app for a free and open video portal.

    You’re bringing up strawman arguments.

  • Joe_HTH

    Microsoft should in turn release mobile Office for every platform except Android. Then they should pull Skype from Android. Microsoft has plenty of ammunition in their gun.

  • Joe_HTH

    Another retarded fanboy. Nobody is asking them to develop for Windows Phone you dumb bastard. Microsoft hasn’t asked them too. Next time try reading the article so you’ll know what the hell everyone is talking about.

    As for Windows Phone users, there are between 15-20 million.

  • Joe_HTH

    “But Google cares very, very deeply about Windows in general”

    Obviously they don’t since they’ve already stated they won’t develop for it.

  • Joe_HTH

    Another idiot who is clueless as to what people are talking about. Be honest. You didn’t even read the article did you. Nobody is asking Google to provide apps to Windows Phone. Read the article and get back to us.

  • Joe_HTH

    Again, nobody is asking Google to bring native apps to Windows Phone.

    Jesus Christ people, read the article in question so you have a clue.

  • http://alameenhospital.com/ Moin Shaikh

    Where is Bill Gates? Has he been using windows phone? I guess he is surfing maps on his iPhone :p

  • Parthipan Paramasivam

    What would happen if microsoft starts blocking whole Google products from it’s desktop system… ??? Come on Google !!! Competition is every where… so need to challenge everything in the business instead of doing chilly things…

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003563927190 Dolce Dolce M

    Who wish to use google map for WP device! Can download Gmaps app from Windows Store. It working very well. Forget the google site.

  • Pierre Gardin

    Sorry, I cannot stand vulgarity and insults (“this is stupid”, “you would be whining like a bitch”). So I won’t waste time replying to you.

  • Parthipan Paramasivam

    Everything starts from 0 only, so we should not underestimate anything in the beginning itself. I hope, WP has lot of potential to gain more market share in coming days…

  • krayziehustler

    MS does supply access to it’s services. My entire office has SAMBA drives mounted on every Windows 7/8 box. Hosted from RH and Solaris servers. Not to mention that we have Active Directory Authentication on all our Linux/Unix servers. So what are you saying? MS has always supported Linux, just because they don’t support 500000 variations of Ubuntuu or Mint doesn’t mean they don’t. BTW, if something is changed on MS end, it is easily fixed by either MS or an update to Samba or winbind

  • http://www.philliphaydon.com Phillip Haydon

    He’s sick of people like you making stuff up, that’s why.

  • Gary Wilkinson

    I didn’t say anybody was. Just giving an opinion, calm yourself.