• Art Linkbetter

    So, we basically have to pray for links for now on.

  • Chris Koszo

    What’s good for him isn’t necessarily what’s good for the rest of us :D

  • http://www.rvinyl.com Rvinyl.com

    I was going to post something but then I realized I might get a backlink for it…

  • http://www.oneshotwonder.com.au/ Dan Paris

    De-link the web! hahaha. Stay tuned for our next topic… Why you should never have your own website.

  • Stephen_Dow

    “You should never know in advance a link is coming, or where it’s coming from. If you do, that’s the wrong path.”

    Okay… Then if you find a new link on webmaster tools that a friend decided to point at you (bringing you great traffic), should you then disavow this link too, “Duane?” What a dumb concept and comment.

  • LC

    Well, what can you expect from a blog post that starts out with “Lock” Ness…

  • Kevin Gamache

    I agree with Duane when you are strategically developing content. You develop/share content with your audience or potential audience because it is important and relevant. Thus if your audience finds it useful and posts a link on their site or via social media because of its usefulness or relevance then those are the links that matter. That is what I am reading into Duane’s comment. When your focus is on the link and mass producing content for links you lose the quality and the true reason for the content.

  • http://www.seo-theory.com/ Michael Martinez

    The search engines made links into something they should never have been. Marketers then took that to a higher level. No one needs to point any fingers about all this. All are equally guilty.

  • http://www.worksmedia.com.au/ John Romaine

    Tell that to paying clients. We can’t all sit around writing blog posts whilst watching Oprah and sipping caramel lattes in our pyjamas – in hope that someone “might” link to us.

  • Peter Watson

    Relevant, high quality links are and will always be powerful……..whether they are manually or naturally developed.

  • http://www.acsius.com/ MAR SCR

    Right Dan. All make ….

  • Durant Imboden

    It’s easy to overreact to a statement like this. I doubt if Duane Forrester is insisting on ignorance. If somebody says “Your site is a useful resource and I’m going to link to it” when your ears aren’t covered, that’s unlikely to be a sin in Bing’s eyes. On the other hand, if 50 bloggers or businesses link to your site because of a linkbuilding campaign, the resulting pattern might be seen as unnatural. (And why not, when it is?)

  • http://houstontexasseo.com/ Paul Sherland

    Come on Duane! Does that mean if we shouldn’t join the local Chamber or BBB because we know we’ll get a link with our membership? I’d thought that Bing is sophisticated enough to distinguish between these links and the paid links from low quality sites.

  • Durant Imboden

    I suspect that he’s more interested in what’s good for users.

  • http://www.dpom.co.uk/ Brett Dixon

    Folks… KNOWING if a link is coming or not is different from the possibility of a link… If I email you Barry with some info for Search Cap, I don’t KNOW a link is coming…you are going to make that decision hence if a link comes…It’s fine.

    It makes perfect sense. If there is a decision from the person who COULD place a link then it’s natural – you’d don’t have to link, you could decide to just ignore me.

    The only way you would link is if what I was sending you was deserving of a link.

    I really struggle to understand why the SEO community struggles to understand this concept. “Links are editorial votes given by choice”.

    No one said it was easy.

  • http://www.dpom.co.uk/ Brett Dixon

    Did you know it was coming? Did you unnaturally arrange for that link?

    Or… Did you earn that link naturally because it links to something worth linking too?

  • http://www.dpom.co.uk/ Brett Dixon

    Yep! We should have been at this stage years ago..Links are primitive and easily manipulated – It should never have been that easy to manipulate search rankings.

  • http://www.dpom.co.uk/ Brett Dixon

    Create better content then: Content that is actually worthy of a link. Mediocre just won’t cut it anymore.

  • http://www.dpom.co.uk/ Brett Dixon

    Yep!

  • http://www.worksmedia.com.au/ John Romaine

    Sure. I’ll just tell my client (multinational business owner) with over 250 staff that he needs to publish more interesting content about “trolleys”.

  • http://www.dpom.co.uk/ Brett Dixon

    Exactly…why not? Be creative…. I have a client that sells laboratory equipment and we manage..it’s not as easy as manufacturing a link but will a little lateral thought it can be done… Don’t just think “trolleys”…think bigger…what do visitors to the website find interesting? What are they likely to share? What industry are they in? It doesn’t have to be solely about “Trolleys”…

  • http://www.cfsearchmarketing.com/ PM Fiorini

    The problem with all of this is that Bing does not matter anyway.

  • Durant Imboden

    We get three times as much traffic from Google as from Bing/Yahoo, but one-third still adds up to a lot of traffic.

  • http://www.examtime.com/ Philip Ellis

    In an ideal world Duane

  • atentat

    This URL doesn’t have a single backlink. Great example.

  • http://www.dpom.co.uk/ Brett Dixon

    I used the link as an example to show that you can create ‘interesting’ content about trolleys

    And again, you are missing the point. You (and others) need to stop obsessing about individual components of online marketing: in this case backlinks.

    So let’s look at that content, the OP stated what’s interesting about ‘Trolleys’. I pointed out that with a little searching you can find inspiration (which was the point of that link).

    Now, if the OP took that idea and developed it into a blog describing trolley art would it mean he would automatically get links? Of course it wouldn’t.

    If the OP seeded this content in different places, perhaps he has very active followers on Twitter that engage often, perhaps they’d share it, perhaps a blogger would see it and link to it?

    The point is, if you concentrate on the bigger picture, build trust, authority and run a holistic online marketing campaign designed to build these things, you’re going to stand a much higher chance of getting natural links.

    It’s easy to create good content, but if you’re not working to create a respected and trusted brand then it’s unlikely you’re going earn a link from a respected and trusted source.

    Stop thinking like a link builder and start thinking like a brand builder.

  • atentat

    You said “content that is worthy of a link” then you provide an example with 0 backlinks. Maybe you should open your eyes? Trust and authority are SEO terms. Newsflesh: You get those from backlinks, not interesting content. If your content doesn’t get links its not interesting according to google.

  • http://www.dpom.co.uk/ Brett Dixon

    “Trust and authority are SEO terms” Really? I’m sure brand trust and authority was around much before the Internet (not least SEO) even existed.

    Again, still missing the point.

    I said:

    This is a good example of interesting content.

    I didn’t say:

    This is a good example of interesting content with links

    That particular content could get links – it might still get links

    Perhaps Ironically, it got one from me (above) didn’t it? why…because it’s interesting!

    And, in addition, OBVIOUSLY, not EVERY piece of content will get links, (I didn’t say that either).

    Which is why, if you look closer at the websites link profile you’ll see the entire site has THOUSANDS of links and a Domain Authority (Moz Metric) of 79.

    But I suppose you’d argue they hand built each and every link and it had nothing to do with the fact they regularly publish well thought out and interesting content?

  • http://www.cfsearchmarketing.com/ PM Fiorini

    That may be true, but most (or all) are going to optimize for Google – not Bing. Thus, for the most part, whatever Bing does is of little interest.

  • http://www.cfsearchmarketing.com/ PM Fiorini

    When statements like these are made, it is clear that both Google and Bing have lost the link war. Rankings based on backlinks is a 20th century technology that is outdated and easily manipulated.

  • http://www.brittanyberger.com/ Brittany Berger

    This doesn’t seem to take into account public relations tactics. If a PR rep arranges for his or her company’s CEO to be interviewed by a legit website, I can’t imagine that being considered a bad practice. However, it’s usually a given that an interview will include a link.

  • http://www.CheesyCorporateLingo.com/ Patrick Reinhart

    The whole link thing is getting ridiculous. More reasons why their importance needs to be turned down.

  • http://www.brickmarketing.com/ Nick Stamoulis

    “Technically, if you know that emailing me a story about search topics will lead to you getting a link in our daily SearchCap, that seems like it would be going against what Bing’s Senior Product Manager is saying is allowed.”

    Caught up in their own rules! Most of us can’t sit around and wait for links to show up. We have to go out there and start some activity that could generate links down the road. In my opinion, the key is to stay honest and as above-board as possible with it.

  • http://www.pushstar.com/ Todd Bailey

    It has really become very difficult to digest what either company says anymore.

  • R L

    “Obviously buying links is a dead end, and it doesn’t matter how you split this hair: sharing, encouraging, incentivizing, buying – it’s all the same.”

  • http://www.discountonlinefitness.com steve

    I sure didn’t see this post coming.

  • http://www.discountonlinefitness.com steve

    “natural links” made with organic clicks.

  • Sha Menz

    Here’s a tip: stop trying to win an argument to prove that your **interpretation** of an unnatural link is right and Duane’s is wrong.
    The fact that this one sentence in a blog post seems to have come as such a shock and an affront to so many really just points up the fact that too many in our industry simply refuse to hear what they don’t want to hear.
    Google and Bing clearly both have a view of what is “natural” and “unnatural”. They have both stated it over and over. Accept it. Pay attention to it and you may magically find it a whole lot easier to do a lot of things, from getting a link analysis and reconsideration request right the first time, to earning links that you will never have to look twice at.

    …and if you have trouble with understanding the difference between knowing and hoping, perhaps it’s time to grab a dictionary.

  • Larry

    No, that would be the same as asking… and that is the wrong path to go down. ;-)

  • Larry

    Or did they link to you because you linked to something that linked to something that linked to something that was worth linking to?

  • http://www.dpom.co.uk/ Brett Dixon

    Buying links has been at a dead end for years. And you’re right: An unnatural link is unnatural. Looking natural isn’t natural either.

    If you’re a business offline, say the internet doesn’t exist, how do you build a brand and become visible?

    You don’t force people to talk / write about you. You work hard to earn that by building your brand: Why should online be any different?

  • http://www.brandingmedia.co.uk Matt Jackson

    I agree with John that paying clients DO expect results, but it’s all about ensuring that they want the right results and ensuring that we deliver on them.

    And, while you or I might not find trolleys particularly interesting, it would be safe to assume that somebody searching for trolleys, or somebody looking to share quality content about trolleys, does find the topic interesting or at least has some interest in that topic. So, in this respect, I’m with Brett.

    It’s our job, on behalf of clients, to portray trolleys as being interesting in order to garner the client website with links, shares, and engagement. That might mean pushing the boundaries, coming up with something entirely unique, or just providing masses of information on the topic, but that’s what we have to do.

    Personally, I’ve written content on toilet brushes, bubble wrap, cardboard boxes… and have had to find ways to make the content interesting and engaging to those that are searching for information on that topic, not necessarily interesting to me.

  • http://www.brandingmedia.co.uk Matt Jackson

    Obsessed, I tell you!

    You could get the company to make their own news:

    – Hold a shopping trolley Olympics, events like the 100m dash. They could invite local supermarkets to enter their own teams and make it an annual event
    – Send out trolleys to local art and design schools and offer awards for the most creative uses. Agree a partnership with a local store to display the winning entries.
    – Pay for a local artist to create a sculpture and display it somewhere local (preferably with permission).
    – Check health and safety regulations, but get employees to try and break the shopping trolley land speed records.
    – Hold a Scrapheap/Junkyard challenge

    You’d get loads of local press coverage, links from those that take part, social media coverage, press releases, and natural links.

    Shopping trolleys are really cool!

    Incidentally, if there are any shopping cart manufacturers reading this, I am available for experiential marketing consultancy work.

  • https://www.facebook.com/nationalcdp NationalCDP

    And what exactly is in Bing’s algorithms that can tell if we knew a link was coming in advance? First it’s Panda, then Penguin, now the “mind-reading algorithm update”? Listed in Dmoz? Smack! We’re taking you off of page one of our SERPS. Please.

    If we choose to be accredited by the Better Business Bureau, thus we “know” a link is coming, we’ll be punished by Duane & his cronies? Either he didn’t think that comment out too well, or we’re misinterpreting it.

    Personally, I’m ignoring that snippet of Duane’s post altogether.