• http://www.phoutsource.com sabrina168

    SEO is not just a web- developer’s job. There are people specializing in it. It is a part of the web development cycle. SEO contributes a lot to the SERP.

  • Kalena

    I can’t believe Derek thought your post was a personal attack yet his wasn’t. The ignorant hat fits perfectly IMO.

  • MauFournier

    This is the best article I’ve read in a long time, it got me excited in a way usually only a film or a good book can.

    It made me register so I could comment!

    It’s really not fair for him to make those assumptions, and by the way, I know WAY more scamming web developers than SEO experts/agencies.

    Thanks Danny, you’ve definitely earned a new fan today :)

  • http://managinggreatness.com Gil Reich

    Danny, he called all SEOs “cockroaches, bastards, evildoers, spammers, and jerkwads,” and said if you’re not all of those, then you’re not an SEO. Then when SEOs respond he Tweets that SEOs are so touchy. He then plays the victim wondering why people are attacking him personally. In his moral universe, condemning a group of good people is somehow better than calling out an individual’s reprehensible behavior. Maybe you’re right that attacking him personally would be wrong. But he certainly deserves to be called (as you and others did) for projecting his darkness onto a community and publicly slandering them.

  • http://cimaich00 cimaich00

    Great article Danny,

    The world is full of people like Derek who know better (than everyone else, in fact I work with one, a complete plumb) and I am guessing he was dropped at birth and that disloged all reason, common sense and understanding.

    I know what Derek is doing though, bad press is press for him (there will be people with his opinions too who will get him to do work for them, thats life). People like Derek are not worth the effort in this article. More noise is good noise for the like of Derek, he is currently rubbing his hands awaiting traffic and the poor old souls who agree with his tripe.

    OK there are poor if not pathetic SEO socalleds out there but there allways will be in life. Do some research of your own, ask and ask questions, get examples of work, call the potential SEO’s client, they will be ok with this if they good at waht they do.

    From an honest SEO Manager.

  • K.S. Katz


    I don’t think anything you’ve said was a personal attack. Some of the comments left by others on his post and yours are insulting; however, my mother always said, “If you can’t stand the heat, don’t put your hand in the fire.” Derek started the conversation, and he’s now reaping the positive and negative effects of it.

    I’ve been an agency and in-house SEO, and worked with a lot of developers: the good, bad and ugly. Most of my bad and ugly experiences came from ignorance, anger and fear. I’ve met some developers that claim SEOs are scammers and black-hearted bastards…and in the end it came down to this, they saw me as a threat in some form or fashion. They felt my existence threatened their job, made them look bad or took away from something they had to offer. My gut feeling on this is Derek’s rant stems from his own resentment and insecurities. It’s him, not you that’s making this personal.

    You’ve done an excellent job pointing out how both communities offer value to the the Internet. Thank you.

    – Kathryn

  • wietog

    Um – writer in the PNW here backing you up. Here is the hierarchy of roles as far as I’ve gathered over the last decade:

    Product Managers
    Project Managers
    Water delivery

    And it’s nearly impossible to get resources for in-house tools for publishing, bug/broken link checks, etc.

    I COMPLETELY agree with you about designers. Flash kills SEO and should be destroyed. I HATE IT. Few designers respect the language, and often mangle the copy, to be posted forevermore on a crawling, useless, soon-to-be outdated/outmoded visual graphic.

    Websites are NOT magazine covers, people!

    Developers: guess what? You don’t know everything just because you can build it. The contractor of a house is not the interior designer, the landscaper, nor the realtor. And by the way, one false character and the whole house falls down – how come the same respect isn’t there for the LANGUAGE we use to communicate in order to…MAKE MONEY (which is then used to PAY YOU.)


    And designers: Content often drives the design. Sorry, but it does. And SEO is part of that. An SEO specialist knows about keywords and linking and hovertext and ranking, etc. Again, there is a very important reason for this: no one cares what a site looks like if they CAN’T FIND IT. And the prettiest layout is useless if the font is tiny and users get lost.

    The last developer I worked with screwed the pooch in terms of SEO and the clicks nearly evaporated on our relaunch until we learned of his laziness on the backend. Repaired – and traffic surged. But it had to be brought to his attention over and over and over.

    In other words, though I am obviously coming at this from a similarly disrespected writer’s position, can’t we all get along? The relationships when building sites are integrated. Respect must exist all around. Because frankly, the lowliest broken link or incorrect re-direct can cut out huge percentages of potential customers. All roads need to lead to the gold you offer on your site. Where you come up in search is crucial.

    Language helps: for example – a bank once hired an SEO and requested that all terms relating to lend, lending be used. They were informed that perhaps they should focus on borrower, borrowing, as the customer’s perspective re: search was key, not the internal value proposition of the company. Ergo, check with the experts.

    I think Microsoft is to blame a lot because they are so developer/engineer-driven and think they know how the entire population thinks. Clue: our brains all work differently. That’s why specializing search is foolish – Bing will never dominate, and Google will. Because you can’t guess what someone is searching for, but you need to cover all the possible bases and create tools to allow them to a) search robustly, and b) learn how to search from repetitive use.

    A good way to improve SEO, in my admittedly unwarranted opinion, is to approach every potential search from the user’s point of view, and then tailor the path according to the multitudes of ways that existing search engines work. Hence, the need for SEO experts. It’s a lot of responsibility crafting a quantifiable method to increase traffic, instead of throwing glistening cooked pasta at a wall.

    FYI: I searched for this article on your site using the terms: SEO FAQ as well as SEO and SEO scumbags and it didn’t show up.

  • voyager360

    Since Derek seems to know it all about SEO, why don’t we put Derek up to the challenge?

    Let’s call Derek out on the carpet here. I challenge Derek to an SEO fight. If he thinks SEO is so easy to do, let’s run a public contest.

    I will put ny name in the hat first and ask that Danny and Aaron jump in, maybe Bruce Clay too and we each take a customer who needs SEO from scratch, and a brand new website and we will see who lands a top page rank first? Nobody gets charged one dime for SEO. This is just a test of skills.

    My bet is that we will have our client’s web site ranking first and Derek will be the loser. We run the contest for 6 months. To make this a fair fight, we all have to pick the same market, moderate to hard penetration for ranking, new customers, new website and in six months my bet is that Derek will be the biggest loser.

    If Derek loses, he has to wear a Chicken Suit to the next SES show.

    Aaron? Danny? Bruce? I’m in if you are.

  • seorecipe

    For me, it has been a great help using search engine optimization. I consider it as a great tool in my work online. It is indeed cost effective because before I don’t really trust other types programming of some sorts because I didn’t know anything like this before. Even some of the friends I know, they are aware that it is necessary also in the growth of any business nowadays.